I think that depends solely on what kind of hunter you are. Are you the type that prepares and plans his hunt? You scout out places where the game is. You search for tracks and signs of wildlife. You get up early and dress in camo, and creep through the woods or sit in a blind for hours. That's one way of hunting.
That is the way I support. It is the way the HSUS supports.
What they don't support is inhumane treatment and down right cruelty. Neither do I.
There is a difference between treating animals humanely, and treating them like humans.
The HSUS has NO AFFILIATION with PETA. Surprised? Click here to see for yourself: Departments & Affiliations
Celebrating Animals, Confronting Cruelty.
HSUS believes in the sportsman's rule of FAIR CHASE. So do I. With that said, here are some more things they object to, and so do I.
Puppy Mills - Where dogs live their whole life in tiny cages and are bred constantly. Where illnesses and disease runs ramped and vet checks are few and far between. Parasites and worms infect every dog. Never a pet on the head, a kind word, or to be a allowed to walk or run around. Never to be part of a loving family. Never to be allowed to do what they were intended to do. Sometimes denied food or water. Put down when they are no longer of use. And then they sell the puppies to places like PETCO. I can not imagine the cruelty these poor dogs suffer. As a breeder, it makes me sick. It makes me terribly sad. And even worse, most likely these puppies will have behavioral problems and health issues when they get "sold" into a home. And then what happens? People take them to the pound.
What a huge mess! And it all started with someone who decided to cage an animal and breed it constantly for the sole purpose of his own personal financial gain. No regard to the animals life. HSUS works constantly to save these puppies and put them into homes.Free Range & No Battery Cages - Have you ever seen these battery cages? They "stuff" the chickens into these tiny cages with a bunch of other chickens. Then they stack them on top of each other, row after row. They live in nasty conditions, even among carcasses of dead chickens. The chickens do not have enough room to do the normal things a chicken does such as; nesting, perching, dust bathing and stretching their wings. All important to the health and well being of the chicken.
No big deal, you say, it's just a chicken? They are animals and they do feel pain. They are entitled to a pain free existence. Chickens are valuable animals to us. They provide our eggs and Sunday fried chicken dinner!
When chickens get stressed, their bodies release hormones. Hmmm......hormones in my chicken? We know that's not good. Think about it. Seriously, how can a chicken that lives in these horrible conditions, produce a healthy egg??
I have to wonder about all the cancer, autism, super germs and new diseases. Are they connected?
As for range free chickens, it is all I buy. Once I tried one, I could actually taste a better flavor and juicer meat. No bruises, or purplish meat. No hormones (natural or added). Happier chickens taste better! I believe they are better for us. I don't think there is enough difference in the cost to matter.
HSUS works constantly convincing the big egg suppliers in the US to try better methods for producing eggs in healthier environments. And has succeeded with several of the largest companies in the U.S.
Computer Hunting - I didn't even know this existed until I was doing research for this post. If you don't know what it is, this is the description: You are at home on you couch, or at your desk computer. Someone, somewhere else, like another state even, has a corral of animals. For the right price (of course) the guy with the animals, sends them to the feeding stations for dinner. You, at home, can see the animals in the pen through a connection on you computer. You are watching them like watching tv. You pick the one you want, take aim, and CLICK your mouse. If you miss, the animal never gets the chance to run away. Someone near the penned animals will finish of the animal for you and send you your, (so called) trophy. This to me, is just so wrong. It's lazy and not the sportsman like attitude or behavior. Sure as hell not "Fair Chase".
According to the dictionary on my Mac, this is the meaning of TROPHY:
#1 A cup or other decorative object awarded as a prize for a VICTORY or SUCCESS.
#2 A souvenir of an ACHIEVEMENT especially a part of an animal taken when hunting.
I believe if someone is going to call something a "trophy", it should be something that was earned and worked for, through fair competition. There are plenty of video games to play for target practice. Picking off any confined animal lured to a meal, over a computer is nothing more than a childish game. It is not success. It is not a victory. It is not an achievement. It is NOT HUNTING and it is not humane. IT IS NOT A TROPHY. Having money for such a game, doesn't entitle one to call it a trophy.
As far as I can tell, the HSUS works to protect the welfare and existence of all animals. They do not put animals before humans, they work to help animals and humans co-habitat peacefully and successfully. I like that.
I searched the HSUS website for anything against hunters or hunting. I could not find anything that I though was unfair or unjust. I realize that is just my opinion, but really, do you know of ANYTHING HSUS does that interferes with the hunters rights?
I know I'm opening a big ol' can of worms here, but lets have this discussion with respect to differing opinions. State the facts, or your opinions. I'd love to hear from you all.
Take a second look at the Humane Society @ http://www.humanesociety.org/about/
Let me know what you find!
Here's why I believe a hunter can't support the HSUS: The HSUS lies and uses stereotypes to fight types of hunting it doesn't like. That damages hunters as a whole.
ReplyDeletePrime example: There is no Internet hunting, but the HSUS has you believing there is. Here's the deal on that: Some moron in Texas tried to set up his operation and a friend tested it once. The state of Texas and hunters were outraged and the operation was shut down. However, the HSUS wants to make the public believe it's still happening. What does HSUS get out of this? 1) It's what's called a "press bill" that gets lots of attention for HSUS, even though there's no actual need for the bill. 2) It plants negative images of hunters in the minds of the non-hunting public. Thanks to HSUS, the public - and you - actually believes this is going on.
Here's another example: California just tried to expand bear hunting. The HSUS waged war on the plan, and referred to bear hunters as "trophy hunters" at every turn. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that California bear hunters are anything but meat hunters, particularly since wanton waste is illegal in California. So basically, HSUS used unfounded stereotypes to turn the debate against us. Why the "trophy" thing? Because trophy hunting ranks lowest in public approval ratings for hunting motivations.
Here's another example: A couple years ago, the HSUS tried to shut down dove hunting in Minnesota. What did the HSUS say about dove hunting to further its cause? That hunters merely use doves as target practice - that they're too small to eat. HSUS twisted a common truism - that dove hunting is a warmup for duck and upland game season - to meet its ends. In reality, hunters love eating doves, and dove hunts are usually accompanied by feasts. (HSUS failed on that campaign, btw. Thank God.)
What's the result of these little lies that HSUS inserts into every debate? Simple. Do you hunt? Do you ever tell non-hunters that you hunt? What's the first thing they ask? "Do you eat what you kill?" Ninety-five percent of us eat what we kill, but due to effective marketing by the HSUS, the non-hunting public thinks that's a rarity.
And while the HSUS says it doesn't oppose hunting, have you ever heard of it speaking in favor of forms of hunting it allegedly believes are OK? Of course not. The organization is run by vegans who believe that eating animals is WRONG. And personally, I'm not going to let people with that philosophy define ethical hunting for me, because by definition, they believe hunting is unethical.
Does HSUS support some causes I agree with? Probably. I don't like factory farming and puppy mills sound terrible. But if HSUS lies about those practices as much as it lies about hunting practices I'm familiar with, I don't know that I can trust the organization on those matters. So instead of supporting HSUS, I choose to behave in a way that reflects my ethics on these issues: I buy cage-free eggs and meat from pastured animals, and I hunt wild game.
I've dealt with industrial eggg farms and they are not pretty. Puppy millls are also horrible. I 've also had to deal with farmers and rural landowners with mental issues who were unable to care for their livestock resulting in negelect. I have no real issue with the Huamane Society but at some time in the future when they have dealt with the puppy mills and the industrial farming issues they will come for you. Don't think for a minute that they will agree with you for your ethics. You will be the right in their crosshairs.
ReplyDeleteWhat do you think about this site?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.arfanage.com/humane-society/the-humane-society-of-the-united-states-hsus-scams-millions-of-dollars-each-year
One thing I've learned in life is that if you look hard enough you can find corruption almost any place. I offer the Catholic Church as just one example.
ReplyDeleteI feel certain in saying that the HSUS is the same. I'm sure there are people working there who have sincere intentions of aiding the millions of cats and dogs that are brought into the world by irresponsible human beings and by nature. I have seen the good things these people do. I have seen animals rescued from horrible conditions that their human owners have forced them to live in.
On the flip side, I have read some articles about how some people in the HSUS deceive their members and probably do mishandle funds, and manipulate the public and media. I don't doubt these stories. This is an example of how the extremes on both side, really hurt a good cause or at least something that started as a good cause.
My belief is this: If you capture an animal, dog or not, and you hold that animal in a cage, pen, kennel, confined in any way, then you are totally responsible for care for this animal. Food, water and health care. You have taken away his freedom and ability to provide for himself. People who do not provide the necessities, should not be allowed to have animals. When I say this, I mean puppy mill conditions. This is when we need HSUS to step in.
I believe everyone has a God given right to hunt for meat. I don't believe it's a "right" to kill an animal just for ivory or antlers. God gave us the right to the animals for food and necessities. Not to use and abuse and waste.
Man, is the only animal on earth that is greedy enough and arrogant enough, to think he has the "right" to kill for fun or trophy. And does. The kinds of people who do this are people who have little respect for LIFE. These are the "hunters" who give real hunters and sportsmen a bad name. They are the ones who display such distasteful behavior that it makes a person turn against any kind of hunting. That is sad. And THAT is the problem.
My conclusion? I will continue to eat free range chickens. (We don't eat eggs). If I have money that I want to donate toward the care of animals of any kind, I will donate to the small animal shelters and local organizations. I'm starting to get the feeling that maybe HSUS is getting too big. I like to give my money to organizations who spend at least 80% of their donations directly for the animals.
I will encourage hunters to stand up for true sportsmanship and turn in poachers. I would encourage them to teach their children ethical hunting practices.
Honestly, I had hoped to get more comments and info. Maybe the subject has just been over done. Over argued.
ArtOC and NorCal, thanks for your input.
And to ANONYMOUS: I'd like to thank you especially, for sending me that web site with all the videos. This is what I was looking for. PROOF. Thank you for "showing" me some of HSUS's tactics. I appreciate your time and comment.
If you want more comments, Tweet your post, and call it H$U$. But be warned, it brings out a lot of venom.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the intelligent discussion you've started here! And I'm with you - I donate to a local feline rescue group, and when it's time for a new kitten (our grande dame cat just died), we'll get one from that group as well.
On May 11, 2010, at 8:31 PM, Hillary Twining wrote:
ReplyDeleteHi Karen,
I saw your blog post entitled “Can a HUNTER Support the Humane Society of the United States?” I want you to know that your support for our campaign against puppy mills is much appreciated. This is an area of common ground for many people concerned about the treatment of dogs at large-scale breeding facilities. You may be aware that our organization is supporting a ballot initiative in Missouri to improve conditions for dogs at puppy mills and to cap the number of breeding dogs at fifty. You can read the full text of the initiative at http://www.sos.mo.gov/elections/2010petitions/2010-085.asp and find out more about the campaign atwww.missourifordogs.com.
You also mentioned battery cages for laying hens, and again, I think factory farming is an issue that unites people from many different backgrounds, both urban and rural. The HSUS’s contention is that animals built to move should be allowed to move, and that farm animals should be given enough room to stand up, turn around, and extend their limbs.
As a humane organization, we are uncomfortable with the idea of killing animals for sport. That said, our statement of policy on hunting does recognize the occasional need to kill animals for human subsistence or welfare concerns. You can view the full statement here: http://www.humanesociety.org/about/policy_statements/statement_wild_animals.html.
In your comment, you noted that you’ll donate locally to shelters providing hands-on care for homeless animals. I think that’s admirable; shelters do important work. As far as your concern that the HSUS is too big, I’d urge you to consider that abusive treatment of animals is often backed by well-established, well-funded industries, and it takes an organization with 11 million supporters to effectively tackle these issues.
Thanks for standing up for what you believe in. Please feel free to respond if you’d like to discuss any of these issues further.
Best wishes,
Hillary Twining
Online Communications
Humane Society of the United States
htwining@hsus.org
Hi Hillary,
ReplyDeleteThank you for your email. I'd like to publish it on my blog if that's okay with you. I'd like to share what you have told me about HSUS. I do not agree totally with the policies of HSUS, but I recognize the important work that it does.
You may have noticed, my site is about hunting dogs. My dogs are bird dogs. They hunt and point the bird, the hunter walks in and flushes the bird then shoots it. The dogs retrieve the birds so there is no waste. We eat the birds.
I personally do not hunt with a gun. It's just not in me to kill an animal, but I do eat some meat.
I am not against hunting, (as long as it is for food and not trophy) but I am sternly against abuse or neglect.
I understand your position with big business. But the world changes 1 person at a time. It can be done. I think if HSUS would spend more money on the animals and less on salaries, etc., I might be more willing to donate. Last night I saw 3 HSUS commercials in about 20 - 30 minutes of tv, on one channel. I think that is a little much. I know you have to raise money, but a lot of what HSUS raises, does not go to the animals.
Again, I thank you for your time and commentary.
~ Karen Thomason
Hi Karen,
ReplyDeleteThanks for responding. It’s fine if you’d like to post my email. The HSUS is actually one of the largest providers of direct animal care in the country because of the five animal care centers we operate, including several wildlife rehab facilities and equine sanctuaries. They are not traditional shelters for homeless pets, but non-companion animals need a safety net too.
The watchdog group Charity Navigator is a great resource (www.charitynavigator.org) for evaluating a nonprofit’s fiscal responsibility. You can look up the HSUS and lots of other animal orgs; we currently have a rating of three out of four stars. Wayne Pacelle’s salary, which is set by our board of directors, is actually much lower than leaders of many comparably sized organizations. At the end of the day, it’s about what you feel most comfortable with as far as a charity’s mission, size, etc.
Best wishes,
Hillary